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CQC failed to restart after XP restart
#11
Well, to be fair, Android and iOS are toys compared to Windows. They are pretty light weight OSes that are given away in order to sell hardware. If they had to create real operating systems, and sell them on their own merits, they wouldn't be giving them away I'm sure. And no one is going to run the world on Android or iOS, or even a CQC style back end really. They aren't really designed for that.

The only other real option for the back end would have been Unix, and that wouldn't have changed the situation much, really. It still would have been a completely separate OS from what's running on the tablets, and wouldn't even have been very conducive to a high quality touch screen client that could run on the same box as the back end, which Windows can easily handle.

This is pretty much why there are no serious automation packages that run on iOS or Android. They are only really appropriate for clients development, and even there they aren't all that well designed for the kind of stuff a full featured automation client wants to do. You spend a lot of time working around the fact that they aren't really designed for multi-threaded, always connected programs. Not to mention that, on Android at least, the development tools are very primitive compared to Windows.

If I was starting over today, I don't see how it could be any different, really.
Dean Roddey
Explorans limites defectum
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#12
Dean, you only need Windows for the IV. And most of us aren't running the IV on PC's anymore. We are using phones and tablets. There are people I work with that don't even have a PC or laptop anymore, and if they do there is a good chance it is a Mac. I would seriously recommend thinking about a code portable IV based on something like HTML5, Java, etc. Unless you want to put all your eggs in the Win8 tablet basket.

CQC's back end could easily run on anything else, it is lightweight enough and I presume is independent of windows enough. It could easily fit on a solid state linux or android based appliance like the Raspberry Pi that would cost < $100, is low voltage and would fit in an enclosure. That's all the ISY and Vera are, little solid state rule engines that support a limited number of things. Much less than CQC, with crappier rule engines than you have, and no CML (or SNMP driver Smile).

Entrenching yourself in windows was a safe bet 10 years ago, I am not sure it is that way anymore...
Wuench
My Home Theater/Automation Website

[THREAD=5957]BlueGlass CQC Config[/THREAD]
[THREAD=10624]Wuench's CQC Drivers[/THREAD]
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#13
I would much rather go with a RIVA2 architecture. The problem is that there is a huge amount of functionality in the IV. A LOT of that code is code shared between the front and back ends, and which allows them to be tightly integrated together, via our ORB technology.

Moving away from that means reproducing all of that functionality again and maintaining it twice, and losing the tight integration which would mean crazy amounts of conversion of data between the two platforms, and making debugging many times over more time consuming. And of course it's not too hard to say code up a portable version of the IV, but actually doing it would probably choke the Devil with details. It's nothing like your average phone app.

It would be horrendous. It's a couple hundred notches below shooting myself in the head on my list of things to do in the future. Even on the back end, a lot of these things that I just take for granted on Windows would suddenly become very iffy. Poof goes the headless audio player and the free access to music metadata, just to a really hairy example that comes to me off the top of my head. And for a lot of other stuff, instead of having it integrated, it would become a hodgepodge of open source third party code and such. I just don't have any desire to go there.

If some Sugar Daddy comes along and buys us and wants to hire a team to make such a transition, I'll be happy to help them. But I don't have any desire to do that myself. Not try to be harsh or anything, understand, just being honest. I also think it would be a very bad thing to destroy the only full bore, commercial, standalone (meaning not supported by selling something else, or information about you) operating system out there, just on general principles.
Dean Roddey
Explorans limites defectum
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#14
Sure I understand, if the back end code base is that entrenched. I thought you had said before, with all your own dialogs, etc that it wasn't that hooked into Windows. You've got a great product and top notch support, I hope it works out.

I really don't know how the XBMC guys manage to deploy their stuff across so many platforms. I know they have a team, but it still amazes me that they can manage a codeset that does complicated things like play a bluray with advanced audio decoding across anything from Android to Windows.
Wuench
My Home Theater/Automation Website

[THREAD=5957]BlueGlass CQC Config[/THREAD]
[THREAD=10624]Wuench's CQC Drivers[/THREAD]
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#15
The back end is quite portable. But of course it wouldn't just be a matter of porting it. I'd have to keep it up on both platforms. And though, as such things go, for such a large amount of code, the port would be 'pretty straightforward' compared to most code bases of similar size/complexity, that's still a very relative term. If we had another person whose job was just that, then it would be pretty feasible. But keeping it going on two platforms myself over time would also be an ongoing, substantial burden, especially given that I'm not a Unix person at all.
Dean Roddey
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#16
Ehh, this is the direction that I would *love* to see CQC go in. Hell, you could join the masses and use Kickstarter to fund it!

But the end all for me would be exactly what wuench said - a little Raspberry Pi, or some other integrated device, that you put in a pretty little box that said CQC, which worked via wifi and had a couple of serial ports and usb ports hanging off the back. If something goes wrong, just unplug it and plug it back in. I would buy the shit out of that.

Then the admin tools; IV Editor, Admin Interface, etc, would just be used client side on Windows, Mac, etc. And if you didn't support Mac for those things, throwing up a VM for that sort of stuff would be trivial.

Thinking out loud, you put together a pretty little boxed solution, and package it with the VRC0P or something for initial control, and you could be right there with the SmartThings that just raised $12M. :-D
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