Home Automation Advise (Baby Steps!)

[slampt]

Hey Guys,

I posted this in another forum (avsforum), but was told here would be better... Well here it is I hope you guys can help

<SNIP>
I know the following has probably been answered through a number of threads but I thought I would ask in the one post and hopefully some of the HA gurus will answer it in the below structure so it makes it clear for me to understand I am an utter noob when it comes to HA

Anyways, I would like to achieve the usual things, lighting, security, hvac, audio and video. Now with the Home Theatre I want to keep that more traditional, ie have my DVD player, XBMC, STB etc in the Room itself and alot of the kit is all IR based so the way I was thinking is to use an IR blaster and a PDA style controller use wifi to send the commands over IP to a central server that then blasts it out over the IR back to the room. This does seem messy but allows my server to keep tabs on what is going on. Plus it also allows me to use traditional Remotes if I need too.

I am initially looking at the wiring to be done with the mind set that I will use zwave for lighting and an elk for security/cameras/control lighting/audio perhaps. Could I initially use the elk as my core device and control that over IP? For example

Phase 1 (Goal Segment zones and installing lighting)
Install an Elk, and replace all switches for lights with zwave kit. Use a wifi PDA to control the zones through the elk initially.

Phase 2 (Security)
Install PIRs, Sensors and Cameras throughout house. Install keypads at entries for local disarms/arms etc
Install Maglocks at entries for use with RFID install RFID recievers at entries also. This would be good to tie it into the garage door opener also. (Maybe?)
Wire Siren and Door bell perhaps? So that it all ties in together and allows say if door bell rings on the PDA pops up the camera shot (maybe an intercom here would be cool too?)

Phase 3 (Audio/Visual and Home Theatre)
Wire stereo speakers in Dining/Kitchen, and Alfresco, I would like the ability to either play the same music across all zones or different music at anyone time. Obviously having the ability to access a fileserver for streaming or an ipod dock located in these areas also?
Then wire up the Hometheatre, currently my theatre consists of a remote for each device. I want it so that when you select the HT zone on the PDA you have the options for that room, lighting, tv/projector xbox, dvd, stb receiver etc) Because of the amount of devices i have a HD switcher which is 4 inputs 1 output for component and optical (digital audio) so perhaps a global cache wired back to the elk would be possible or perhaps at this stage i need to start looking at intergrating something like CQC?


To summarise I need a plan for the initial wiring as I am building a new house and the builders will run whatever I tell them too. That way I can then go ahead and implement the different phases.
I look forward to everyones feed back/assistance and advice.

I hope this makes sense and I look forward to hearing from you.

</SNIP>

Thanks
Joe

[IVB]

I referred him to this AVS thread, that had the following snippet. Also valuable stuff after that too, so the thread is worth reading.

Beelzerob also had an interesting recent thread on the CQC forum.

1) Occupancy: Motion sensors for every room, run 18/4 for that.

2) Usage: Door sensors for every closet door in case you want to do auto-lighting-on, run 22/2 (or CAT5 to a central location) for that.

3) Security: Siren/CO/Smoke/Heat/Glassbreak sensors, most of them use 18/4, heat may use 22/2.

4) Driveway and or/fence gates for open/close status: 22/2 or CAT5.

5) Window sensors: 22/2, or if you have multiple together you could do CAT5 to the middle one and 22/2 to each window.

6) HA Speakers: Due to it being irritating to have audio pause to hear HA announcements/etc, I personally chose to mount a 2nd set of speakers just for HA (doorbell/phone/HA announcements/intruder alerts), and got the single-gang Elk $7 speakers. I ran CAT5 to the Elk, and put each of them on a relay so I can turn each of them on/off. Don't forget outside speakers too, such as patio and front door.

7) Doorbell: If you get an Elk panel, you could use CAT5 for the doorbell and have an Elk-based doorbell rather than a generic chime. Plus that way you'd be setup in the future to automatically pop up a frontdoor camera on doorbell ring, and not rely on the doorbell detector.

8) HVAC: 2 CAT5 to your thermo (one for integration with PC, one in case you want remote thermos)

9) 1 CAT5 to irrigation

10) Temp: 1 22/2 or CAT5 to any room where you want to mount a temp sensor to get temps in each room

11) HDTV Antenna: 1 RG6 for external antenna on roof

12) XM: 1 RG6 for XM signal cable to an external antenna

13) DirecTV: 1 RG6 per concurrent tuner you want, only one for digital cable I believe.

14) Safety/Elk:Water Sensors near hot water heater or other flood-prone locations. CAT5 I think.

15) Security Keypad, prox sensors, pin readers. CAT5 I think.

[beelzerob]

I'm about to post another thread that deals with planning out HA for our entire house. Then once the laundry list of capabilities is established, I'll draw up the list of required wire needed. It might be useful for figuring out how to do this from scratch, if you want to follow along (Despite playing with HA for a couple years now, this is still very much "from scratch" for me).

[ToyMaster458]

Couple of notes on this:

1) Occupancy: Motion sensors for every room, run 18/4 for that.

-22/4 Will work just fine for this and is cheaper.

3) Security: Siren/CO/Smoke/Heat/Glassbreak sensors, most of them use 18/4, heat may use 22/2.

-Glassbreak can use 22/4 also.
-Some towns require the use of Fire Grade Wire for Smoke and Heat.

6) HA Speakers: Due to it being irritating to have audio pause to hear HA announcements/etc, I personally chose to mount a 2nd set of speakers just for HA (doorbell/phone/HA announcements/intruder alerts), and got the single-gang Elk $7 speakers. I ran CAT5 to the Elk, and put each of them on a relay so I can turn each of them on/off. Don't forget outside speakers too, such as patio and front door.

-If I remember correctly Elk recomends using 18 gauge for speakers but you can double the pairs from a Cat5

14) Safety/Elk:Water Sensors near hot water heater or other flood-prone locations. CAT5 I think.

-or a 22/4

[IVB]

Couple of notes on this:

Thanks TM, didn't realize how overengineered my house was

Leads me to another question - if 22g is good enough, then for non-fire rated stuff, couldn't you just run CAT5 everywhere and double up on that? That way you have a highly re-usable type of wire in the wall if you decide to not put that sensor in, or swap it to something else.

[slampt]

Hey Guys,

Cheers so far,
Question.

Because I am looking at having the HomeTheatre kit in their respected rooms (ie with the tv they will be driving) can I not use Cat5e/6 for majority of my wiring, obviously I will run some RG6 or the like to get the tv signal to the appropriate locations.

Thanks
Joe

[IVB]

do you mean component video over CAT5? Sure, that's what Penngrey does, but you need equipment that can use CAT5. NO idea about the HomeTheatre stuff or what penngrey uses though.

[slampt]

Sorry IVB,

What I mean is, because the DVD player(s) HTPC etc will be in the same room as the plasma/projector(s) I will not need to run any Video from the central location. All my video is over IP. So my question was can I not just run Cat5e/6 for majority of my house, e.g PIRs, Window Sensors, Speakers etc.

I will still be running the RG6 for the TV signal stuff, and perhaps some spares here and there.

Cheers
Joe

[IVB]

oh ok, yeah that's the same question I put forth to TM (or anyone else who knows). Makes sense to me, but what do I know. I did use CAT5 for Windows/Door/Elk Speakers (not in-ceiling, I used speaker wire there) so i know that's legit, the PIR is what i'm not sure about.

The one thing TM did point out which I neglected to mention is that smoke/heat need to be fire-rated wire, typically a red jacketed wire.

[slampt]

Yup all good,
My current house has a really dodgey alarm system and I have used cat5 for the PIRs and it works, so I think it will be safe to run the cat5e/6 for majority of the kit. There will be a waste of unused pairs in the run but hey I could always find a use for them later... maybe..

Well I am off to bed, tomorrow I will get my house plans and start seeing what my wiring requirements will be and then progress from there.

Also where would the best place be to purchase an elk-m1 from?
I am in AUS and there is only one distributer here

Cheers
Joe