How's the DNV coming along?

[IVB]

Just wondering how the DNV is coming along. Some of us are crying ourselves to sleep without it..

[Rolecgroup]

Just wondering how the DNV is coming along. Some of us are crying ourselves to sleep without it..

Same here - only installed V2.0 a couple of days ago, and already missing my bedside control...



Dean.

[Mark Stega]

The DNV is running against 2.0 but is lacking the following:

1) Full media widget support

2) Conditional commands

3) New 2.0 RTV substitution

4) Popup/popout/overlay support

I'm on vacation (skiing) this week; I plan to put up a beta next week with #3 completed so it is useable, then add the other features.

[electron]

Cool, I look forward to playing with the DNV on my Elk TS07.

[Steve]

I hope Mark made it back from skiing in one piece! I just got a Cingular 8525 and am itching to try out a few interfaces on it. Hopefully we'll have at least a beta DNV for 2.0 after the holiday.

[Mark Stega]

I did make it back in one piece - After experiencing true spring skiiing in Vermont, but in December. Record high temperatures (mid 50's at Killington, 60's in the valleys) on Wednesday to Friday. At least it had been cold in the week beforehand and there was enough terrain open so it was fun.

The DNV will certainly have a beta drop circa new years against the new 2.0.1 CQC release.

[jkmonroe]

Do you have any idea if the new DNV will work with the Motorola Q? I have heard from others that the old DNV did not work with it.

[Mark Stega]

The Motorola Q is w Windows Mobile 5.0 platform, so it should work. As long as there is nothing pathological about the platform we should be able to work together to get it running. I don't remember someone else having problems...

[jkmonroe]

i am not sure. i do know that there are 2 versions, windows mobile pocket pc and windows mobile smartphone. one has a touchscreen and one does not. not sure how that would affect the DNV. i have a decision to make between the Q or the Treo 700wx and I was leaning towards the Q. :-D

[Jonathan]

The Motorola Q is w Windows Mobile 5.0 platform, so it should work. As long as there is nothing pathological about the platform we should be able to work together to get it running. I don't remember someone else having problems...
The current DNV does not work on the Motorola Q. It crashes immediately upon load. I sold my Q so I don't remember anything else from when I tried it once.

[Mark Stega]

The current DNV does not work on the Motorola Q. It crashes immediately upon load. I sold my Q so I don't remember anything else from when I tried it once.

It was likely a problem parsing the XML config file rather than something inherent in the Q...

[IVB]

The DNV will certainly have a beta drop circa new years against the new 2.0.1 CQC release.

Any update on this?

[Mark Stega]

I am aiming for a first release next week that basically upgrades the DNV to the 2.0 environment with the same functionality that it had under 1.6; Missing will be support for conditional commands, overlays/popup/popout, and many of the actions avialble to work against local and global variables. That support will be forthcoming.

[IVB]

Cool. I won't be touching my existing PPC screens for a bit, so the same fxnlty is fine by me.

[Mark Stega]

I have a beta of the DNV ready for public consumption.

The DNV runs against 2.0.4 and is versioned as 2.0.4 Build 2.

It implements the same functionalitry as 1.6 plus:

1) Media widgets work as in the full 2.0 viewer
2) Basic set/get of local/global variables are supported
3) RTV substitution is performed just as in the full viewer

It is lacking the following:

1) Support for full local/global operations beyond basic set/get.
2) Conditional commands
3) Popup/popout/overlay support
4) Command preview

Send me a PM if you with an e-mail address if you want a copy. I'll add you to a distribution list that will receive this and subsequent releases.

[IVB]

FYI: I tested the first build last night, got it to work fine with my V1.6 screens. I'm having issues with my DSL account, so I may/not be around on chat or forum to help out with any setup. Make sure to follow the release notes, here's some tips:

1) Install the .NET Compact framework on your PC WHILE your ppc is plugged into the PC and connected via ActiveSync. That will ensure the right version gets copied over.
2) If you'll be using this on a cellphone PDA while not in the house, the DotNetViewer does not automatically obtain a data connection (at least my Cingular 8125 doesn't). Hence I need to open up Internet Explorer to establish a Cingular data connection, then I can use the DNV.
3) Make sure you change the following parameters in your interfaceviewer config file: Host, Uid, pw, startup template. I think there was a 5th but I can't remember it - just scan the list and it's pretty evident.

[Steve]

So far on my Cingular 8525 the cab installed fine. I created a small test interface and while connect via my activesync connection everything seemed to work fine. My next challenge is connecting via wifi and then internet. I will get to that soon.

Thats the good news - the only slight issues, if you even want to call it that is that I never used the XML gateway, so when the XML config file wanted the gateway name and port, I had no clue as I did not remember what it was on install. I did not see anything in the Admin console that gave me the info, so I search the website and really did not find much either. The XML document apparently is not available yet.

So... I finally found the info in the Shell Log in the Server Admin area. I just think it could have been a little easier to find the info, but aside from that, so far so good.

[LesAuber]

You point out what some of us have been asking for for some time. A way to report and save all of the monikers, drivers, ports, bindings etc that you set up on install and then can't remember for on occasions like that. Remembering what comm port you assigned a driver or name you gave a gateway is a challenge at best. I try and write it down but there should be a better way.

[Steve]

Ok, I got connected both via wifi and the net. The transparency issue is kind of a drag, just copying over some of my buttons, etc to test. I'll need to build out some real interface screens to really try the performance and features, but so far it looks great. It took 13 seconds (via www) from when I clicked on the Viewer icon till my interface was displayed and ready to go, albeit a very simple mostly text screen.

[Dean Roddey]

Other folks are getting considerably better performance than that, so there's probably something going on there that could be improved. Are you using a background image? Also, once you've accessed the images once, they should get cached and subsequent load should be quicker.

[Steve]

Actually, it takes approximately the same amount of time with wifi as well. Yes, it is very simple at this point, a solid color background and a few standard command button with no images. The screen seems to paint fast, the time seems to be for the interface to just even start. A fw seconds of nothing then the WM 'hourglass' for most of the time, then the interface loads quickly after that. I guess I'll have to try the desktop dnv to compare. But yes, once its all loaded, everything seems great.

There is no special setup other than just having the XML gateway loaded and active, right? Are there any settings in the .config file that may have an impact?

[Mark Stega]

Actually, it takes approximately the same amount of time with wifi as well. Yes, it is very simple at this point, a solid color background and a few standard command button with no images. The screen seems to paint fast, the time seems to be for the interface to just even start. A fw seconds of nothing then the WM 'hourglass' for most of the time, then the interface loads quickly after that. I guess I'll have to try the desktop dnv to compare. But yes, once its all loaded, everything seems great.

There is no special setup other than just having the XML gateway loaded and active, right? Are there any settings in the .config file that may have an impact?Yhe only 'performance' setting is the setting that controls how often the DNV will query to see if a newer image exists on the server. It ships defaulting to 1 day:

<GeneralImageCacheInterval>14400</GeneralImageCacheInterval>

As long as you didn't zero this out, there really isn't anything else to change.

[Steve]

Ok, I've got everying on 2.0.8 now - the server, desktop dnv and the dnv on the pda (WM5).

The desktop dnv is virtually instant, a couple seconds max. The dnv on the PDA is unchanged - takes like 12-20 seconds for interface to come up, even on a blank black background with 1 text label and exit button. It's not a big deal to me, but I am concerned that you say everyone is getting better than that.

So, can people tell me how long it takes for your DNV interface to come up on your PDA, either with wifi or over the net? If there is something wrong on my end I'd certainly like to find and fix it, but I don't see anything else to change. My 'pings' are like 5ms via wifi so I don't think it is a 'network' problem, and the desktop dnv attaches to the same router wan port so I don't think from the router to server is an issue. So it just seems to me its got to be something in the pda or pda dnv.

[Dean Roddey]

A ping might not be a good example. Even a very slow connection could probably do a ping pretty quickly, since it's very small. Try copying a 64K file or something and time that.

[IVB]

You are a speed demon, my friend.

It takes me 28 seconds to pull up the below image, of course I typically average 5->15Kbps over edge and you have that fancy pants new phone. Today does seem especially slow, I noticed InternetExplorer was seriously piggy when I just pulled up charmedquark.com (i need to do that in order to establish an EDGE connection). At times, I doubt it was even 5kbps.

If I'm going to do any active using of the CQC DNV, I typically pull up the DNV, then navigate between each page so it caches the images, then leave it up&running. Then, going to each page is much much quicker. I pay in terms of battery life, but I gain performance.

http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/screenshots/PPC/PPC_Home.jpg

[Steve]

I don't think the issue has anything to do with the speed of the connection. It has everything to do with whatever the dnv is doing to connect to the gateway, at least thats the way I see it. Here is an example. I connect via usb cable/activesync. I copied a 3.9MB file and it took 9 seconds. Immediately after I clicked on the DNV and it took 13 seconds to bring up the virtually blank interface. Probably 11 or 12 of those seconds was just the 'hourglass' or WM5 today screen, the actual loading of the template probably only took a second or so.

So I really don't think there is a communications or speed issue, I think it is something in the loading of the DNV that is taking some time behind the scenes. Perhaps I need to get a detailed log of what it is doing to see where the problem is?

IVB: I appreciate where you are coming from, but here is my question... How much of those 28 seconds is from when you first see the interface start to draw vs how long it takes to paint the screen?

Edit: I copied some more graphics onto the interface. Here is approximate how the time breaks down:

:00 Click Viewer Icon
:01 Hourglass comes up
:07 Hourglass goes off, just regular Today screen
:11 Hourglass comes up for a moment, then Interface starts to come up (background turns black, which is current interface color)
:14 Interface is fully painted

So you can see it is taking only about 3 seconds to paint the screeen, its the first 11 or so seconds that an unknown delay (talking to the server) is taking place

[IVB]

Hmmm. If the connection speed isn't different, why are my #s so different? Yours takes 11 seconds to go black, mine takes 21. Here's the breakdown, could it be a processor speed thing?

BTW, I ran this twice, got generally similar #s (within 2s of each below)

My #s:
:00 Click Viewer Icon
:01 Hourglass comes up

(doesn't happen) Hourglass goes off, just regular Today screen

:21 Hourglass comes up for a moment, then Interface starts to come up (background turns black, which is current interface color)
:27 Interface is fully painted

[Steve]

I take it those times are via the internet? Do you get different results via wifi or usb/activesync?

Anyone else have timings? Mark - what do you see on the PDA?

[Steve]

Another issue with the DNV. I was reworking my Elk keypad for the DNV and ran into a problem. My Disarm button does not work. It works fine in the regular IV but not in either DNV and I do not think I am using any 'unsupported' feature. It is setup as follows:

Static Text field on page called 'Code'.
The number buttons are Command buttons that do Code::Append(#)
The Disarm button does Code::SendValue(M1.InvokeCmd, Disarm:1,\%(v)), then Code::Clear()

Like I said, it works fine in the regular IV, so I know the commands are right, plus its been working pretty much like this for over a year. Any ideas?

[Dean Roddey]

He had to rework all that command stuff to get up to the new 2.0 scheme, so it's possible that you found some wee glitch or something.

[Mark Stega]

Another issue with the DNV. I was reworking my Elk keypad for the DNV and ran into a problem. My Disarm button does not work. It works fine in the regular IV but not in either DNV and I do not think I am using any 'unsupported' feature. It is setup as follows:

Static Text field on page called 'Code'.
The number buttons are Command buttons that do Code::Append(#)
The Disarm button does Code::SendValue(M1.InvokeCmd, Disarm:1,\%(v)), then Code::Clear()

Like I said, it works fine in the regular IV, so I know the commands are right, plus its been working pretty much like this for over a year. Any ideas?

It should work -- Can you set the log level to 16, try it, and send me the resulting log file?

[bryanb]

I'm using 2.0.8 CQC and DNV. I have a very simple template with a check box widget and a few other widgets. When you pressed the checkbox button the false image goes away but the true image doesn't appear. If you go and touch some other widget, the true image now appears. It's like something needs to cause a repaint of the template for the new image to appear. Samething happens if you go from true to false, also. On the regular IV, the same template works as expected.

[IVB]

yep, i got the same issue. I reported it to Mark, but he's out of pocket for the next 1.5 weeks.

[Mark Stega]

I snuck in a fix for the "SendValue" issue with the text widget; I am going to get a few minutes tomorrow to fix the issue with the Checkbox widget. I'll then release a 2.0.10.2 (or whatever is appropriate) with these two bug fixes included. We'll also open the DNV up for general consumption.

[Mark Stega]

I have a fix for the checkbox widget (in the meantime, if you assign an image to the "False Focus" state, you will see an image when you toggle the value).

I'll have a 2.0.11 compatible release out as soon as Dean answers a question about the substitution parameter in the StaticTextWidget.

It's weird, it has been dark for 3 hours and my body wants to say it must be midnight, but it is 6pm! I am not certain I am cut out for 5 hours of light per day...

[bryanb]

Mark, Could you do a capability build for 2.0.13. Thanks.

[Mark Stega]

Mark, Could you do a capability build for 2.0.13. Thanks.I sent one out a few minutes ago. Let me know if you did not receive a copy.

[IVB]

Did anyone get a 2.0.14 build?

[Dean Roddey]

It's now the official release so it's there under the Try/Buy tab as usual.

[IVB]

Thanks. Is this working for anyone? I can't get it to do anything, even when plugged into my PC (hence using the wifi cxn) and pointing at a 192.168.2.xxx IP addr. And, there's no logfile being generated, even if I put loglevel at 8.

[Mark Stega]

Thanks. Is this working for anyone? I can't get it to do anything, even when plugged into my PC (hence using the wifi cxn) and pointing at a 192.168.2.xxx IP addr. And, there's no logfile being generated, even if I put loglevel at 8.I just downloaded and installed the official release and it worked for me. One thing I didn't get to was increased logging when the configuration file is malformed XML. That can produce the symptom of no startup and no log, so go ahead and post your config file here (or email it to me) so I can take a look at it and see if I see something wrong.

[Bauer83]

I am just curious if the Motorola Q should be compatible with the .NET viewer? Are there any other blackberry phones that do? What are people currently using? There is quite a good deal here on the Q, as you can buy one for free on the usual 3 year contract.

[rm1759]

I am going to attempt to deploy CQC this weekend onto a fuji 3400, running win 98, this will be my first deployment of the system for the rest of the family. I understand for this to work on 98, I need to run this DNV. Is there an install guide for this application somewhere? I will be connecting via wireless g.

[Dean Roddey]

There are instructions in the release notes, which are in the installer.

[SamVimes2]

I am just curious if the Motorola Q should be compatible with the .NET viewer? Are there any other blackberry phones that do? What are people currently using? There is quite a good deal here on the Q, as you can buy one for free on the usual 3 year contract.

Did you get this running on your Q? The DNV documentation references the smartphone platform, but I'm struggling to get it running (on WinMo 6 smartphone).

[DaveB]

I may be wrong, but I do not think that the Q is fully .net enabled....

[SamVimes2]

The Q is a Windows Mobile 5.0 Smartphone, which is specifically referenced as supported in the docs of the DNV.

That being said, I am getting exceptions that look an awful lot like the DNV uses controls that aren't supported on the smartphones. That's why I'm looking for confirmation one way or the other.

[froop]

That being said, I am getting exceptions that look an awful lot like the DNV uses controls that aren't supported on the smartphones. That's why I'm looking for confirmation one way or the other.

I'm no expert here, but I think you'll find that the DNV just doesn't support a lot of controls, regardless of platform. Particularly logic and system commands aren't available, and will raise errors.

[Mark Stega]

The Q is a Windows Mobile 5.0 Smartphone, which is specifically referenced as supported in the docs of the DNV.

That being said, I am getting exceptions that look an awful lot like the DNV uses controls that aren't supported on the smartphones. That's why I'm looking for confirmation one way or the other.

Sam,

I may not be following the thread correctly - Did you drop to a very simple template with just a special action button that does an exit?

If so, the controls that are not supported are those that the dot net framework requires, not the CQSL controls.

[SamVimes2]

Yes I did. It didn't work. Detailed log in my other thread.

Does the DNV support smartphone (like it says in the docs)?

Has anyone gotten it to work on a WinMo 5 Smartphone or WinMo 6 Standard device?

[Mark Stega]

Yes I did. It didn't work. Detailed log in my other thread.

Does the DNV support smartphone (like it says in the docs)?

Has anyone gotten it to work on a WinMo 5 Smartphone or WinMo 6 Standard device? I doubt it - See the other thread...